Post by Oisac on Feb 26, 2007 22:35:38 GMT -5
Panerai 111G Luminor Marina
Introduction
Over the past few years I've collected Rolex watches almost exclusively; a few Seikos have been my only dalliance in brands other than Rolex until just about a month ago, when I finally branched out and bought my first "high end" non-Rolex watch, the Panerai Luminor Marina 111G referred to in this review.
Here are my impressions:
Size:
This must be the one defining factor of Panerai that everyone is concerned with so I'll adress it first, and simply: It's not as big as you think. The "pillow" shape of the case back lets the watch feel smaller on the wrist than it's meaty 44mm lug width would suggest visually. Also, the short lugs make the watch again feel not as big as you'd expect. In the case of the 111, the case and bezel design are fairly simple, which lets the dial shine as the main focal point of the watch along with the "weird" crown guard, which is surely the second topic people are always interested in when considering a Panerai. I have a 7 3/4" wrist, and the Panerai suits me perfectly. However, I've certainly seen these large watches on smaller wrists and they look fine there too.
Some people have mentioned that after wearing a 44mm Panerai, their other watches seem "too small". I've not experienced this. I wear a 36mm Rolex Explorer regularly and I've had no "size envy" when going from the Panerai to the Explorer at all. I wear my watches based on what I feel like wearing at a given moment, and do not concern myself with "comparing" them to each other in a search for short comings or superiorities of any one watch, so that might be the difference. Basically, I think the Panerai is just the right size for what it is, and the smaller Explorer is likewise just right for what it is. I neither feel like the Panerai is too big, or the Explorer too small. Here's a wrist shot:
The crown guard and comfort on the wrist:
I think the second thing people always comment on is the odd lever crown guard on most Panerai watches. On the 111, like many, I was concerned about the big crown guard also. But in reality, it's nothing to think twice about as far as wearing comfort goes, it's only a question of "Do I like how it looks?" or not. Because the crown guard is curved and thick, it actually is less annoying to me than the crowns on my two Submariners, which are small and hence dig into the back of my hand often leaving a red mark. The crown guard on the Panerai is, paradoxically, so large that it's more *part* of the watch than something sticking out from it. On the wrist I don't notice it at all, so again it's just a question of aesthetics in my opinion. Personally, I love the way it looks.
Functionally, the crown guard can be a bit frustrating. Because it's non-removable the lever and guard itself do get in the way of the necessary hand-winding of the watch. It's not hard, per se, but winding the watch is certainly not as easy as one without this kind of lever guard, mainly because you can't wind the watch in full turns. Also, I do have some concern about the lever in the guard becoming "loose" as it gets opened and closed every time you wind the watch. I've not heard a single instance of this happening, but logic tells me that it will wear and eventually become loose.
As for general comfort, because the 111 is on a strap it's really very comfortable on my wrist, more so than most of my Rolexes. With the right strap (soft and pliable) the watch is a joy to wear, not too heavy and not too large. I was concerned that it's thick profile would cause it to catch on door jambs etc. but so far I've not had any problems of that nature at all. The smooth, polished bezel isn't exactly a scratch magnet, but it does get scratched, mine has 2 or 3 now. Not a big deal to me, but others might care.
Functionality:
First off, the watch is very legible, more so than any watch I've worn. The large, easy-to-read dial is perfectly laid out, and the hands, despite being black on black, are no problem to find thanks to a nice wide stripe of super luminova on each one. The seconds hand is essentially superfluous, more of a design factor than useful timing device due to lack of deliniated seconds markings other than every 5 seconds.. This is no issue to me, but others might care.
Winding of the watch is smooth, but somewhat limited by the crown guard: Half turns only, no long ratcheting winds. Also, winding itself is a bit confusing to the neophyte because of the natural fear of breaking the watch by over-winding it. I myself drastically under-wound the watch at first, until I finally decided to wind it like the manual says (duh) and just wind until the crown stops turining. Since then, no problems.
Night time legibility is very good, with the watch glowing all night on a good "charge" under the bed lamp. Much better than I can say for *any* Rolex I've seen with luminova on it, which seem to uniformly go dark after just a few hours.
Water resistance is rated at 300m, which means the watch is safe for swimming and light snorkleing, or so I'm told. The lack of bracelet, however, prevents me from really believing this watch is a swimmers item, especially when a decent strap can cost as much as $200 or more. Also, I just plain don't feel comfortable swimming in a watch without a screwdown crown, though they say the watch is even rated with the lever open. These watches were designed for use by frogmen during WWII, so maybe I'm being too uptight, but still... no screwdown crown, no swimming for me, that's that. I don't worry about it, though, if I did jump in with the watch on I wouldn't be stressed by it.
The slightly domed crystal is a joy, low profile enough to be no problem, but also with that nice curve that adds just a bit of flavor and style to the watch. Personally I'd prefer it to be even more domed, but that's just me.
The display back on the 111 is one of the reasons I got it. There's nothing spectacular about the essentially generic Unitas movement showcased by the display back, but I like looking at it anyways. Some people prefer the solid steel back found on the base models, and I can also see that attraction from a purely utilitarian standpoint. To me, I like to see the movement. The engraving on the caseback is top quality and looks nice, it's nice to see the serial and model numbers of your watch without removing a bracelet like Rolex requires (until recently anyways).
Appearance:
Love it or hate it seems to be the way with Panerai. Some people seem to immediately hew to the basic-yet-flamboyant look of a Panerai, others immediately loathe it. If you've gotten this far in my review, I guess you probably like it. The rare fence-sitters seem to prefer the Radiomir line, as they are more traditional in their shape and do not have the trademarked Panerai crown guard.
For me, I love the crown guard and the squarish case with the short lugs. Coupled with a thick, meaty strap the watch manages to look both utlitarian and stylish at once, a rare combo. Looking good with any manner of clothing is another of Panerais interesting qualities, the 111 looks fine in a suit or jeans and T (which is what I wear 99.9% of the time).
There are many models of Panerai, the Luminor Marina falls at the "base" end of the spectrum. Broadly stated, Panerai watches fall into two categories: "Historic" and "contemporary", with the 111 being a historic model. The historics seem to be widely preferred by "collectors" and "enthusiasts" because they are, as the name implies, more true to the basic history of Panerai and the watches that were originally designed for use by the frogmen in WWII. I do not know if the 111 has a direct lineal ancestor or not, but it certainly looks very similar to some of the ultra-rare and ultr-expensive original Panerai watches I've seen pictures of.
Craftsmanship:
The 111G is clearly not a "cheap" watch with a high price tag. The craftsmanship is strong, with very tight fit and finish. For those who are "into" watches there might be some hesitation regarding the movement, which is essentially a very lightly reworked Unitas pocket watch movement that can be bought in bulk for as little as $75, maybe less. But, overall the craftsmanship is first rate on the watch. The dial is a very nice clean matte black that's slightly textured. The indices and numbers are perfectly painted on with no over-painting. The 111G pictured is the last of the painted dial 111's, on the H series they switched over to a sandwich dial where the top dial has cutouts and a luminova "second" dial (or layer) is attached underneath. All in all, it looks very cool and also is historically accurate, but I prefer the painted dial on the 111G and earlier models.
Hands are nice and clean, I really like the black on black scheme. My only problem is: The paint on my sub-seconds hand (white) is chipped. It's 99% invisible to the naked eye (you can't even see it in my pics), but with a loupe it can be seen. This may or may not be a QC issue depending on your standards, it doesn't bother me at all since I literally can't see it without using a loupe.
Movement:
I'm no watchmaker, so I can't comment in too much depth about this movement. It's COSC certified, so it must be accurate, and judging by looking at it it seems to be a nice movement. As I mentioned before, it's a lightly re-worked Unitas pocket watch movment. The changes that Panerai makes are few: Swan neck regulator, blued screws and the Panerai etching, which was changed to a Cotes de Geneve finish starting with the H series. I don't time my watches, so I can't report on accuracy. If spending $3 to $4k on a watch with a very simple, non-manufacture movement bothers you, you're in a tight spot: There's less than 10 genuine independent manufactures who make watches in any quantity any longer, and Panerai isn't one of them. Panerai has started producing a manufacture movement, but it won't turn up in the 111 until roughly 2016 if estimates are to be believed.
Packaging:
I'm not concerned much with packaging, if they handed me a watch in a plastic ziplock bag I wouldn't care, so long as it's the watch I wanted at a price I found acceptable. But, Panerai packaging is nice. There's a solid black outerbox, with a very nice pear-wood inner box. The watch comes with two straps, a leather one and a rubber one. Also included is an OEM screwdriver for removing the "spring bars", which are really long screws. Certificates are decent, and manuals are fine. Overall, packaging is much nicer than Rolex, but still... it's just a box for the watch.
Straps:
Can't talk about Panerai without discussing straps. The screwdriver in the packaging is indicative of something: Panerais and straps are an inseperable combination. There are literally dozens of people making thousands of different straps for Panerai watches, and IMO the 111 and other historic models with 24mm lug widths benefit by the widest margin from this cottage industry. Straps run in price from $50 up to $300 or more, and quality and styles span the imaginable spectrum of humanity and then some. I personally prefer non-tapering 24/24 (24mm at both lug and buckle ends) straps with classic "pre-v" buckles like pictured above. "Pre-v" refers to Panerai styles before Panerai was purchased by the Vendome group, who changed their name to Richemont shortly after purchasing Panerai, I guess "Pre-V" sounds cooler than "Pre-R".
In any case, straps really do liven up the watch and change it's personality. Owning a historic Panerai and 5 straps is like owning 5 different watches almost, the look of the watch can change so much based on the strap. I've never been a strap fan, and the strap was the *main* reservation I had about Panerai watches. But I can vouch, the straps are great. Panerai straps are nothing like the wimpy, padded dress straps found on 99% of strapped watches. On the contrary, they're meaty, thick and sturdy, and lend a very classic feeling to the watch.
Community:
Here's something you don't see in a lot of watch reviews, a reference to the community of people who collect the watches. In the case of Panerai, it's warranted. The Panerai collectors community is outstanding, a group of very enthusiastic and exceptionally friendly and welcoming people. Buying a Panerai is sort of like buying a Harley, you're also buying memberrship into a group of like-minded people who love to own, share and discuss the object of their hobby, as well as just have fun. If you don't own a Panerai yet, don't go to the Panerai forum on this website, it might push you right over the top.
Conclusion:
I love this watch. It's so completely different than any of my Rolexes, I almost can't help loving it. The size is nice, it's very comfortable, the straps are great fun, and more than anything the Panerai COMMUNITY is great! Is the watch "as good" as a Rolex? I can't offer a genuine opinion on what's "better" or "worse", but I can say that in this price range, Rolex offers watches that have all the history and more of Panerai, are all manufacture watches, and Rolex is an independently owned watch company where Panerai is part of a group. Does that make Rolex "better"? I don't know, but it might make them a better "value" than Panerai.
I guess the real question here is, would I buy another Panerai or buy this one again if I had the choice to do it over? Yes and yes. In fact, I'm positive my next watch will be another Panerai and not a Rolex =)
as reviewed by Molex
Introduction
Over the past few years I've collected Rolex watches almost exclusively; a few Seikos have been my only dalliance in brands other than Rolex until just about a month ago, when I finally branched out and bought my first "high end" non-Rolex watch, the Panerai Luminor Marina 111G referred to in this review.
Here are my impressions:
Size:
This must be the one defining factor of Panerai that everyone is concerned with so I'll adress it first, and simply: It's not as big as you think. The "pillow" shape of the case back lets the watch feel smaller on the wrist than it's meaty 44mm lug width would suggest visually. Also, the short lugs make the watch again feel not as big as you'd expect. In the case of the 111, the case and bezel design are fairly simple, which lets the dial shine as the main focal point of the watch along with the "weird" crown guard, which is surely the second topic people are always interested in when considering a Panerai. I have a 7 3/4" wrist, and the Panerai suits me perfectly. However, I've certainly seen these large watches on smaller wrists and they look fine there too.
Some people have mentioned that after wearing a 44mm Panerai, their other watches seem "too small". I've not experienced this. I wear a 36mm Rolex Explorer regularly and I've had no "size envy" when going from the Panerai to the Explorer at all. I wear my watches based on what I feel like wearing at a given moment, and do not concern myself with "comparing" them to each other in a search for short comings or superiorities of any one watch, so that might be the difference. Basically, I think the Panerai is just the right size for what it is, and the smaller Explorer is likewise just right for what it is. I neither feel like the Panerai is too big, or the Explorer too small. Here's a wrist shot:
The crown guard and comfort on the wrist:
I think the second thing people always comment on is the odd lever crown guard on most Panerai watches. On the 111, like many, I was concerned about the big crown guard also. But in reality, it's nothing to think twice about as far as wearing comfort goes, it's only a question of "Do I like how it looks?" or not. Because the crown guard is curved and thick, it actually is less annoying to me than the crowns on my two Submariners, which are small and hence dig into the back of my hand often leaving a red mark. The crown guard on the Panerai is, paradoxically, so large that it's more *part* of the watch than something sticking out from it. On the wrist I don't notice it at all, so again it's just a question of aesthetics in my opinion. Personally, I love the way it looks.
Functionally, the crown guard can be a bit frustrating. Because it's non-removable the lever and guard itself do get in the way of the necessary hand-winding of the watch. It's not hard, per se, but winding the watch is certainly not as easy as one without this kind of lever guard, mainly because you can't wind the watch in full turns. Also, I do have some concern about the lever in the guard becoming "loose" as it gets opened and closed every time you wind the watch. I've not heard a single instance of this happening, but logic tells me that it will wear and eventually become loose.
As for general comfort, because the 111 is on a strap it's really very comfortable on my wrist, more so than most of my Rolexes. With the right strap (soft and pliable) the watch is a joy to wear, not too heavy and not too large. I was concerned that it's thick profile would cause it to catch on door jambs etc. but so far I've not had any problems of that nature at all. The smooth, polished bezel isn't exactly a scratch magnet, but it does get scratched, mine has 2 or 3 now. Not a big deal to me, but others might care.
Functionality:
First off, the watch is very legible, more so than any watch I've worn. The large, easy-to-read dial is perfectly laid out, and the hands, despite being black on black, are no problem to find thanks to a nice wide stripe of super luminova on each one. The seconds hand is essentially superfluous, more of a design factor than useful timing device due to lack of deliniated seconds markings other than every 5 seconds.. This is no issue to me, but others might care.
Winding of the watch is smooth, but somewhat limited by the crown guard: Half turns only, no long ratcheting winds. Also, winding itself is a bit confusing to the neophyte because of the natural fear of breaking the watch by over-winding it. I myself drastically under-wound the watch at first, until I finally decided to wind it like the manual says (duh) and just wind until the crown stops turining. Since then, no problems.
Night time legibility is very good, with the watch glowing all night on a good "charge" under the bed lamp. Much better than I can say for *any* Rolex I've seen with luminova on it, which seem to uniformly go dark after just a few hours.
Water resistance is rated at 300m, which means the watch is safe for swimming and light snorkleing, or so I'm told. The lack of bracelet, however, prevents me from really believing this watch is a swimmers item, especially when a decent strap can cost as much as $200 or more. Also, I just plain don't feel comfortable swimming in a watch without a screwdown crown, though they say the watch is even rated with the lever open. These watches were designed for use by frogmen during WWII, so maybe I'm being too uptight, but still... no screwdown crown, no swimming for me, that's that. I don't worry about it, though, if I did jump in with the watch on I wouldn't be stressed by it.
The slightly domed crystal is a joy, low profile enough to be no problem, but also with that nice curve that adds just a bit of flavor and style to the watch. Personally I'd prefer it to be even more domed, but that's just me.
The display back on the 111 is one of the reasons I got it. There's nothing spectacular about the essentially generic Unitas movement showcased by the display back, but I like looking at it anyways. Some people prefer the solid steel back found on the base models, and I can also see that attraction from a purely utilitarian standpoint. To me, I like to see the movement. The engraving on the caseback is top quality and looks nice, it's nice to see the serial and model numbers of your watch without removing a bracelet like Rolex requires (until recently anyways).
Appearance:
Love it or hate it seems to be the way with Panerai. Some people seem to immediately hew to the basic-yet-flamboyant look of a Panerai, others immediately loathe it. If you've gotten this far in my review, I guess you probably like it. The rare fence-sitters seem to prefer the Radiomir line, as they are more traditional in their shape and do not have the trademarked Panerai crown guard.
For me, I love the crown guard and the squarish case with the short lugs. Coupled with a thick, meaty strap the watch manages to look both utlitarian and stylish at once, a rare combo. Looking good with any manner of clothing is another of Panerais interesting qualities, the 111 looks fine in a suit or jeans and T (which is what I wear 99.9% of the time).
There are many models of Panerai, the Luminor Marina falls at the "base" end of the spectrum. Broadly stated, Panerai watches fall into two categories: "Historic" and "contemporary", with the 111 being a historic model. The historics seem to be widely preferred by "collectors" and "enthusiasts" because they are, as the name implies, more true to the basic history of Panerai and the watches that were originally designed for use by the frogmen in WWII. I do not know if the 111 has a direct lineal ancestor or not, but it certainly looks very similar to some of the ultra-rare and ultr-expensive original Panerai watches I've seen pictures of.
Craftsmanship:
The 111G is clearly not a "cheap" watch with a high price tag. The craftsmanship is strong, with very tight fit and finish. For those who are "into" watches there might be some hesitation regarding the movement, which is essentially a very lightly reworked Unitas pocket watch movement that can be bought in bulk for as little as $75, maybe less. But, overall the craftsmanship is first rate on the watch. The dial is a very nice clean matte black that's slightly textured. The indices and numbers are perfectly painted on with no over-painting. The 111G pictured is the last of the painted dial 111's, on the H series they switched over to a sandwich dial where the top dial has cutouts and a luminova "second" dial (or layer) is attached underneath. All in all, it looks very cool and also is historically accurate, but I prefer the painted dial on the 111G and earlier models.
Hands are nice and clean, I really like the black on black scheme. My only problem is: The paint on my sub-seconds hand (white) is chipped. It's 99% invisible to the naked eye (you can't even see it in my pics), but with a loupe it can be seen. This may or may not be a QC issue depending on your standards, it doesn't bother me at all since I literally can't see it without using a loupe.
Movement:
I'm no watchmaker, so I can't comment in too much depth about this movement. It's COSC certified, so it must be accurate, and judging by looking at it it seems to be a nice movement. As I mentioned before, it's a lightly re-worked Unitas pocket watch movment. The changes that Panerai makes are few: Swan neck regulator, blued screws and the Panerai etching, which was changed to a Cotes de Geneve finish starting with the H series. I don't time my watches, so I can't report on accuracy. If spending $3 to $4k on a watch with a very simple, non-manufacture movement bothers you, you're in a tight spot: There's less than 10 genuine independent manufactures who make watches in any quantity any longer, and Panerai isn't one of them. Panerai has started producing a manufacture movement, but it won't turn up in the 111 until roughly 2016 if estimates are to be believed.
Packaging:
I'm not concerned much with packaging, if they handed me a watch in a plastic ziplock bag I wouldn't care, so long as it's the watch I wanted at a price I found acceptable. But, Panerai packaging is nice. There's a solid black outerbox, with a very nice pear-wood inner box. The watch comes with two straps, a leather one and a rubber one. Also included is an OEM screwdriver for removing the "spring bars", which are really long screws. Certificates are decent, and manuals are fine. Overall, packaging is much nicer than Rolex, but still... it's just a box for the watch.
Straps:
Can't talk about Panerai without discussing straps. The screwdriver in the packaging is indicative of something: Panerais and straps are an inseperable combination. There are literally dozens of people making thousands of different straps for Panerai watches, and IMO the 111 and other historic models with 24mm lug widths benefit by the widest margin from this cottage industry. Straps run in price from $50 up to $300 or more, and quality and styles span the imaginable spectrum of humanity and then some. I personally prefer non-tapering 24/24 (24mm at both lug and buckle ends) straps with classic "pre-v" buckles like pictured above. "Pre-v" refers to Panerai styles before Panerai was purchased by the Vendome group, who changed their name to Richemont shortly after purchasing Panerai, I guess "Pre-V" sounds cooler than "Pre-R".
In any case, straps really do liven up the watch and change it's personality. Owning a historic Panerai and 5 straps is like owning 5 different watches almost, the look of the watch can change so much based on the strap. I've never been a strap fan, and the strap was the *main* reservation I had about Panerai watches. But I can vouch, the straps are great. Panerai straps are nothing like the wimpy, padded dress straps found on 99% of strapped watches. On the contrary, they're meaty, thick and sturdy, and lend a very classic feeling to the watch.
Community:
Here's something you don't see in a lot of watch reviews, a reference to the community of people who collect the watches. In the case of Panerai, it's warranted. The Panerai collectors community is outstanding, a group of very enthusiastic and exceptionally friendly and welcoming people. Buying a Panerai is sort of like buying a Harley, you're also buying memberrship into a group of like-minded people who love to own, share and discuss the object of their hobby, as well as just have fun. If you don't own a Panerai yet, don't go to the Panerai forum on this website, it might push you right over the top.
Conclusion:
I love this watch. It's so completely different than any of my Rolexes, I almost can't help loving it. The size is nice, it's very comfortable, the straps are great fun, and more than anything the Panerai COMMUNITY is great! Is the watch "as good" as a Rolex? I can't offer a genuine opinion on what's "better" or "worse", but I can say that in this price range, Rolex offers watches that have all the history and more of Panerai, are all manufacture watches, and Rolex is an independently owned watch company where Panerai is part of a group. Does that make Rolex "better"? I don't know, but it might make them a better "value" than Panerai.
I guess the real question here is, would I buy another Panerai or buy this one again if I had the choice to do it over? Yes and yes. In fact, I'm positive my next watch will be another Panerai and not a Rolex =)
as reviewed by Molex
