Post by Oisac on Feb 26, 2007 22:32:51 GMT -5
Credit for “better photos” to Chen in Taiwan who sold me the 87 and took the pics of it. 2nd set are mine.
This is the 2nd Panerai 87 G series (year 04/05) that I've owned (unfortunately the first was sold to fund some engine work on my L. Rover). I had to have another so last December I found one BNIB.
I love this watch for a few reasons, so here is my review of it.
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The PAM 87 1000m Submersible (aka The Blue La Bomba)
An indulgent analogy (real sailors would correct some of the terms I use):
This watch exudes a spirit of an industrial, sea faring tool. It is a BEAST of a watch. The 87's case, caseback, bezel, & crownguard are all brushed. The only polished parts visible on the case are the screws, lever pin for the crownguard, helium escape valve, and circle markers on the bezel. A very nice utilitarian look is achieved with this scheme. The bezel & dial markers throw a very slight light reflection across the eye now and then.
Massive Crown Guard:
The Helium Escape valve can be seen in this photo:
The 87 has design elements that remind me of a submarine or sea going vessel. Even though I’ve only toured a sub once, I remember it well. When looking at the dial & bezel of the 87 I notice that the bezel reminds me of a port hole on a ship through which sailors can look out to sea or in this case at a deep ocean blue dial. The bezel also reminds me of the hatch of a sub, through which sailors pass to move about within a submarine’s hull or stick their head out to catch a glimpse of the sun. The markers on the bezel very much look like rivets holding the bezel to the watch much like bolts around a porthole or sub hatch. Opening the lever on the massive crownguard, which looks like the nose of a submarine to me, takes the tension off of the crown so that it is no longer pressed against the o-ring inside. Water resistance is compromised by opening the lever, much like a hatch on a sub. If I were Panerai, in addition to the crown lever, I would have made the crown screw down, but that would make the crownguard system just a useless, aesthetic accessory. The crown guard lever must be opened by pulling the little metal lever. This allows the wearer to utilize the crown, which is very large in diameter and thickness, by winding it or pulling it open to set the time and/or date. Using the crown for any of those purposes gives the impression of turning the “screw down” wheels sailors turn when battening down the hatches or sealing off compartments within a submarine. When you are finished setting the time or date, the crown must be pushed in and the lever closed for water resistance similar to the way a hatch must be closed on a ship. The brushed finish of the steel also looks like the hull of a submarine to me (although Sinn has that claim now with their new U series watches). It has the dull no non-sense finish of a purposeful tool.
One last “of the sea” design element that jumps out at me is the sub seconds dial. The little markers at 12, 3, 6, & 9 on the sub dial look like the tail of a submarine which have 4 small fins in the same configuration. The seconds hand makes its way around the small dial like a propeller on the back of a sub although at a much slower pace, you get the idea that the watch is “alive” and chugging along. This seconds configuration is the same configuration that all Panerais with a sub seconds dials have. The historic line of the Panerai brand (111, 05, 112, 00 etc) also have “torpedo” hands (i.e. are shaped like torpedoes), which is another element that harkens these watches to the sea and their history as tools of combat (see Panerai forum for more info). The 87, however, has white gold skeleton hands, which I like a lot, that match the surrounds of the hour markers on the dial.
Is it chance that the design of this watch reminds me of the sea/ocean and man’s love affair with it and history of navigation? I don’t think so. I think Panerai put their thinking caps on to come up with what they could do for their regular production 1000m sub or “deep diver”? Without the proper measurement of time, accurate navigation of the sea/oceans is not possible. Of course we all know what happens if a diver miscalculates time under water. I think that these are unconscious reasons why people love diving watches. Panerai thought long and hard about this one to design a tool fit for the perils and joys associated with the water and man’s relationship with it. I think Panerai hit the ball out of the park with this one and it amazes me that more people aren’t feverish for this watch.
The crystal, dial & feel:
The crownguard is LARGE and in charge (much longer and thicker than even the newer historic guards like on my PAM 05) and the watch itself is THICK and HEAVY...not your everyday dive watch. I'm sure the PAM 194 (2500m sub), 202, & 187 are even thicker, heavier, and are certainly larger. Alas 47mm is much too large for my 6.75 wrist.
Another aspect I like about the 87, which other Panerai fans may not, is that the dial is smaller than regular 44mm Luminors or Submersibles due to the width of the crystal being smaller for 1000m water resistance. For this reason...believe it or not when looking at the dial (perception, illusion, whatever you want to call it), the watch appears and kind of wears smaller than other 44mm PAMS. This is not the case when observing the heft or thickness of the watch though--You know it is there. It has a more compact look and heavy duty feel to it than my PAM 05. When compared to my Sea Dweller, the dial is only slightly larger, but the case is massive in comparison.
The t dial is also starting to turn a nice off-white, buttery color and I suspect that will get even better with time. The blue dial looks very dark most of the time, almost black like deep ocean water, and lighter Mediterranean blue when under direct light. The dial color changes like the sea does when at different depths. This sets it apart from a black dialed PAM, which is pervasive in the line up. The dial also has a matte, bead blasted look to it. The dial is unique in the brand’s line up. The 64 is the original, special edition La Bomba, which was made for 1 year only, and in comparison to the reg. production 87 had a black dial, no white gold surrounds, and a silver sub seconds dial. Another thing I prefer about the 87 over the 64 are white gold surrounds. They really complement the t markers very nicely. I think the only way they could have improved the dial, for consistency, would be if they had made the surrounds for the 12 & 6 markers as well.
Beadblasted look of the dial:
The crystal is 5.1 mm thick and is made of Conundrum (fancy word for sapphire) according to Panerai. Regular PAM crystals are 3 mm thick.
Bezel:
Much has been said about the bezel on Panerai’s submersible line. The 24, 25, 64, & 87 all share the same bezel configuration, with the 64 & 87’s being wider. The bezel clicks once for each minute or 60 clicks total, this is different than many other diver watches which have a 120 click bezel. The PAM bezel is also easier to turn (i.e. takes less force to turn it) than most bezels. The result is a bezel that glides easily. Many complain that there is too much “play” with PAM bezels and that they should be improved. I agree that I’d prefer a stiffer bezel; however mine does seem robust and does not move on its own, which has been a chronic problem for some of the older subs. I believe it would hold up well in a professional environment, but the “perception of quality”, much like Rolex bracelets and clasps on their divers, is lacking.
Straps & comfort:
One thing to note is that Panerai owners typically suffer from “strap syndrome”. This includes buying strap after strap from crocodile, rubber, 50 different finishes of leather (i.e. distressed, nubuck, waterproof, baseball glove, etc), nylon, NATO, coramid, cordovan, etc. It never ends especially with all of the aftermarket producers. I’ve avoided the syndrome so far as it can get very expensive and complicated, especially since my 05 uses a tang buckle and the 87 uses a deployant. This means the two types of straps are not interchangeable. Currently I have only 4 straps (2 OEM leather 2 OEM rubber). 3 for the 05, 1 for the 87. I’m sure I’ll add more, but I will try to stick to OEM and keep the pace very slow and thought out as I’ve seen strap FS ads that say take the whole lot for over 1k (yikes!!). Strap buyers take a real hit when trying to unload unwanted items.
As far as strap selections...Many like brown leather straps for the 87 as it looks good with the blue dial. I think they look good too. For wearing/using such a heavy watch and balancing its weight and position on the wrist I prefer using the deployant with the OEM rubber (duly the “comfort strap”) and I wear mine flipped inside out so the "Officine Panerai" script that runs the length of the strap is not showing. It looks more utilitarian that way in my opinion (also wear my DLC'd PAM 05 on OEM rubber most of the time). All you see is a faint "Panerai Italy" in small discrete letters. Anyway, I prefer the non-leather straps for this one. I sold the nylon velcro that came with it as it wasn't my taste. Black rubber or technical material type straps look and fit this watch best. The watch also wears and looks terrific on a strap. Much has been said about the size of 44mm Panerais, but they really work well for a normal sized wrist due to their short lugs and the fact that most come on a strap.
The Blue La Bomba, along with other Panerai sub models and the arktos, REALLY works with the OEM deployant buckle, which is massive brushed steel. It gives the watch a solid/one peice of machinery feel. It is a double deployant clasp and really gives the owner a feeling of wearing a bracelet made of rubber, rather than a rubber strap. I typically prefer bracelets, but this watch was born for a rubber strap
Packaging:
The packaging, booklets, & accessories Panerai includes with all watches are top notch, especially when compared to those that came with my Sea Dweller (a watch I love and a model I will always own). The box is a pale colored wood and mounted next to the watch are a strap and screwdriver, which facilitates strap changes. The booklets are 1st class and give a history of the brand as well as instructions for operation and cleaning.
Crown, Movement & Accuracy:
The crown as previously mentioned is very large and is very easy to operate. The crown guard lever must first be opened, then the crown can be pulled out. The crown really has 4 positions.
1. “Lockdown” mode meaning the crown is depressed, with the crown guard lever closed. The watch is at full water resistance capacity.
2. Winding position-the crown lever open, but the crown has not been pulled out.
3. Date Setting Position- the crown lever open, the crown pulled out to one “click”.
4. Time Setting Position- the crown lever open, the crown pulled out to two “clicks”.
The Movement utilized by the Blue La Bomba is the pervasive Valioux 7750, which is modified by Panerai and is the movement used in most of the brand’s automatic watches. Much has been said about it being inexpensive, but very reliable. Panerai removes the parts of the chronograph movement that it doesn’t need and does some decoration and other modifications (see Panerai forum on TZ for more info on mods).
Time keeping accuracy is terrific on my 87. Of my 4 watches (Sea Dweller +6 secs, PAM 05 -1.5 secs, Seiko diver +10 secs) this one performs the best at approx. -1 second per 24 hours as measured by www.time.gov.
Sandwiched between others in my collection:
Other Positives:
-This is one of the last Panerai models to have the tritium dials according to sources on our favorite forums
-Production was cut from 300 to 200 from 04/05 to 05/06. Rumor mill says the 87 is going the way of the dinosaur this year. It may be highly collectible somewhere down the line, however unlikely in the short term in my opinion.
-These are going for big discounts off of suggested retail right now (check various forums). I got mine BNIB for a big discount and the slightly used ones are even cheaper and very much undervalued (when compared to other Panerai models) on the market right now for what you get.
If you are looking for something a little different, like adding some heft & color, I can't say enough good about the PAM87 for a collection. I think I have the positives covered.
As far as improvements I’d suggest:
-White gold surrounds for the 12 & 6 to match the other markers
-In house movement (although I don’t mind as long as the workhorse movement it uses keeps working and keeps good time)
-Screw down crown in addition to crown guard (perhaps crown guard could be used to depress the screw down crown into its threads and an o-ring could be utilized both on top and on the bottom of the threads)
-Reduce the size to 42mm and put a bracelet on it (although my 44mm works great on rubber)
-Make the bezel 120 clicks and a little stiffer
-Panerai service has had some very bad press on many PAM forums. My experiences with them were also sub par. Communication was horrible, and my watch returned with extra marks on the case. My wait time of 2 months was par for the luxury watch course.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I highly recommend this watch and plan to own mine for a long, long time.
I hope you enjoyed this review!
REVIEWED by : Rusty
This is the 2nd Panerai 87 G series (year 04/05) that I've owned (unfortunately the first was sold to fund some engine work on my L. Rover). I had to have another so last December I found one BNIB.
I love this watch for a few reasons, so here is my review of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The PAM 87 1000m Submersible (aka The Blue La Bomba)
An indulgent analogy (real sailors would correct some of the terms I use):
This watch exudes a spirit of an industrial, sea faring tool. It is a BEAST of a watch. The 87's case, caseback, bezel, & crownguard are all brushed. The only polished parts visible on the case are the screws, lever pin for the crownguard, helium escape valve, and circle markers on the bezel. A very nice utilitarian look is achieved with this scheme. The bezel & dial markers throw a very slight light reflection across the eye now and then.
Massive Crown Guard:
The Helium Escape valve can be seen in this photo:
The 87 has design elements that remind me of a submarine or sea going vessel. Even though I’ve only toured a sub once, I remember it well. When looking at the dial & bezel of the 87 I notice that the bezel reminds me of a port hole on a ship through which sailors can look out to sea or in this case at a deep ocean blue dial. The bezel also reminds me of the hatch of a sub, through which sailors pass to move about within a submarine’s hull or stick their head out to catch a glimpse of the sun. The markers on the bezel very much look like rivets holding the bezel to the watch much like bolts around a porthole or sub hatch. Opening the lever on the massive crownguard, which looks like the nose of a submarine to me, takes the tension off of the crown so that it is no longer pressed against the o-ring inside. Water resistance is compromised by opening the lever, much like a hatch on a sub. If I were Panerai, in addition to the crown lever, I would have made the crown screw down, but that would make the crownguard system just a useless, aesthetic accessory. The crown guard lever must be opened by pulling the little metal lever. This allows the wearer to utilize the crown, which is very large in diameter and thickness, by winding it or pulling it open to set the time and/or date. Using the crown for any of those purposes gives the impression of turning the “screw down” wheels sailors turn when battening down the hatches or sealing off compartments within a submarine. When you are finished setting the time or date, the crown must be pushed in and the lever closed for water resistance similar to the way a hatch must be closed on a ship. The brushed finish of the steel also looks like the hull of a submarine to me (although Sinn has that claim now with their new U series watches). It has the dull no non-sense finish of a purposeful tool.
One last “of the sea” design element that jumps out at me is the sub seconds dial. The little markers at 12, 3, 6, & 9 on the sub dial look like the tail of a submarine which have 4 small fins in the same configuration. The seconds hand makes its way around the small dial like a propeller on the back of a sub although at a much slower pace, you get the idea that the watch is “alive” and chugging along. This seconds configuration is the same configuration that all Panerais with a sub seconds dials have. The historic line of the Panerai brand (111, 05, 112, 00 etc) also have “torpedo” hands (i.e. are shaped like torpedoes), which is another element that harkens these watches to the sea and their history as tools of combat (see Panerai forum for more info). The 87, however, has white gold skeleton hands, which I like a lot, that match the surrounds of the hour markers on the dial.
Is it chance that the design of this watch reminds me of the sea/ocean and man’s love affair with it and history of navigation? I don’t think so. I think Panerai put their thinking caps on to come up with what they could do for their regular production 1000m sub or “deep diver”? Without the proper measurement of time, accurate navigation of the sea/oceans is not possible. Of course we all know what happens if a diver miscalculates time under water. I think that these are unconscious reasons why people love diving watches. Panerai thought long and hard about this one to design a tool fit for the perils and joys associated with the water and man’s relationship with it. I think Panerai hit the ball out of the park with this one and it amazes me that more people aren’t feverish for this watch.
The crystal, dial & feel:
The crownguard is LARGE and in charge (much longer and thicker than even the newer historic guards like on my PAM 05) and the watch itself is THICK and HEAVY...not your everyday dive watch. I'm sure the PAM 194 (2500m sub), 202, & 187 are even thicker, heavier, and are certainly larger. Alas 47mm is much too large for my 6.75 wrist.
Another aspect I like about the 87, which other Panerai fans may not, is that the dial is smaller than regular 44mm Luminors or Submersibles due to the width of the crystal being smaller for 1000m water resistance. For this reason...believe it or not when looking at the dial (perception, illusion, whatever you want to call it), the watch appears and kind of wears smaller than other 44mm PAMS. This is not the case when observing the heft or thickness of the watch though--You know it is there. It has a more compact look and heavy duty feel to it than my PAM 05. When compared to my Sea Dweller, the dial is only slightly larger, but the case is massive in comparison.
The t dial is also starting to turn a nice off-white, buttery color and I suspect that will get even better with time. The blue dial looks very dark most of the time, almost black like deep ocean water, and lighter Mediterranean blue when under direct light. The dial color changes like the sea does when at different depths. This sets it apart from a black dialed PAM, which is pervasive in the line up. The dial also has a matte, bead blasted look to it. The dial is unique in the brand’s line up. The 64 is the original, special edition La Bomba, which was made for 1 year only, and in comparison to the reg. production 87 had a black dial, no white gold surrounds, and a silver sub seconds dial. Another thing I prefer about the 87 over the 64 are white gold surrounds. They really complement the t markers very nicely. I think the only way they could have improved the dial, for consistency, would be if they had made the surrounds for the 12 & 6 markers as well.
Beadblasted look of the dial:
The crystal is 5.1 mm thick and is made of Conundrum (fancy word for sapphire) according to Panerai. Regular PAM crystals are 3 mm thick.
Bezel:
Much has been said about the bezel on Panerai’s submersible line. The 24, 25, 64, & 87 all share the same bezel configuration, with the 64 & 87’s being wider. The bezel clicks once for each minute or 60 clicks total, this is different than many other diver watches which have a 120 click bezel. The PAM bezel is also easier to turn (i.e. takes less force to turn it) than most bezels. The result is a bezel that glides easily. Many complain that there is too much “play” with PAM bezels and that they should be improved. I agree that I’d prefer a stiffer bezel; however mine does seem robust and does not move on its own, which has been a chronic problem for some of the older subs. I believe it would hold up well in a professional environment, but the “perception of quality”, much like Rolex bracelets and clasps on their divers, is lacking.
Straps & comfort:
One thing to note is that Panerai owners typically suffer from “strap syndrome”. This includes buying strap after strap from crocodile, rubber, 50 different finishes of leather (i.e. distressed, nubuck, waterproof, baseball glove, etc), nylon, NATO, coramid, cordovan, etc. It never ends especially with all of the aftermarket producers. I’ve avoided the syndrome so far as it can get very expensive and complicated, especially since my 05 uses a tang buckle and the 87 uses a deployant. This means the two types of straps are not interchangeable. Currently I have only 4 straps (2 OEM leather 2 OEM rubber). 3 for the 05, 1 for the 87. I’m sure I’ll add more, but I will try to stick to OEM and keep the pace very slow and thought out as I’ve seen strap FS ads that say take the whole lot for over 1k (yikes!!). Strap buyers take a real hit when trying to unload unwanted items.
As far as strap selections...Many like brown leather straps for the 87 as it looks good with the blue dial. I think they look good too. For wearing/using such a heavy watch and balancing its weight and position on the wrist I prefer using the deployant with the OEM rubber (duly the “comfort strap”) and I wear mine flipped inside out so the "Officine Panerai" script that runs the length of the strap is not showing. It looks more utilitarian that way in my opinion (also wear my DLC'd PAM 05 on OEM rubber most of the time). All you see is a faint "Panerai Italy" in small discrete letters. Anyway, I prefer the non-leather straps for this one. I sold the nylon velcro that came with it as it wasn't my taste. Black rubber or technical material type straps look and fit this watch best. The watch also wears and looks terrific on a strap. Much has been said about the size of 44mm Panerais, but they really work well for a normal sized wrist due to their short lugs and the fact that most come on a strap.
The Blue La Bomba, along with other Panerai sub models and the arktos, REALLY works with the OEM deployant buckle, which is massive brushed steel. It gives the watch a solid/one peice of machinery feel. It is a double deployant clasp and really gives the owner a feeling of wearing a bracelet made of rubber, rather than a rubber strap. I typically prefer bracelets, but this watch was born for a rubber strap
Packaging:
The packaging, booklets, & accessories Panerai includes with all watches are top notch, especially when compared to those that came with my Sea Dweller (a watch I love and a model I will always own). The box is a pale colored wood and mounted next to the watch are a strap and screwdriver, which facilitates strap changes. The booklets are 1st class and give a history of the brand as well as instructions for operation and cleaning.
Crown, Movement & Accuracy:
The crown as previously mentioned is very large and is very easy to operate. The crown guard lever must first be opened, then the crown can be pulled out. The crown really has 4 positions.
1. “Lockdown” mode meaning the crown is depressed, with the crown guard lever closed. The watch is at full water resistance capacity.
2. Winding position-the crown lever open, but the crown has not been pulled out.
3. Date Setting Position- the crown lever open, the crown pulled out to one “click”.
4. Time Setting Position- the crown lever open, the crown pulled out to two “clicks”.
The Movement utilized by the Blue La Bomba is the pervasive Valioux 7750, which is modified by Panerai and is the movement used in most of the brand’s automatic watches. Much has been said about it being inexpensive, but very reliable. Panerai removes the parts of the chronograph movement that it doesn’t need and does some decoration and other modifications (see Panerai forum on TZ for more info on mods).
Time keeping accuracy is terrific on my 87. Of my 4 watches (Sea Dweller +6 secs, PAM 05 -1.5 secs, Seiko diver +10 secs) this one performs the best at approx. -1 second per 24 hours as measured by www.time.gov.
Sandwiched between others in my collection:
Other Positives:
-This is one of the last Panerai models to have the tritium dials according to sources on our favorite forums
-Production was cut from 300 to 200 from 04/05 to 05/06. Rumor mill says the 87 is going the way of the dinosaur this year. It may be highly collectible somewhere down the line, however unlikely in the short term in my opinion.
-These are going for big discounts off of suggested retail right now (check various forums). I got mine BNIB for a big discount and the slightly used ones are even cheaper and very much undervalued (when compared to other Panerai models) on the market right now for what you get.
If you are looking for something a little different, like adding some heft & color, I can't say enough good about the PAM87 for a collection. I think I have the positives covered.
As far as improvements I’d suggest:
-White gold surrounds for the 12 & 6 to match the other markers
-In house movement (although I don’t mind as long as the workhorse movement it uses keeps working and keeps good time)
-Screw down crown in addition to crown guard (perhaps crown guard could be used to depress the screw down crown into its threads and an o-ring could be utilized both on top and on the bottom of the threads)
-Reduce the size to 42mm and put a bracelet on it (although my 44mm works great on rubber)
-Make the bezel 120 clicks and a little stiffer
-Panerai service has had some very bad press on many PAM forums. My experiences with them were also sub par. Communication was horrible, and my watch returned with extra marks on the case. My wait time of 2 months was par for the luxury watch course.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I highly recommend this watch and plan to own mine for a long, long time.
I hope you enjoyed this review!
REVIEWED by : Rusty
